Posted by: Lister | April 10, 2008

Schism Vs Fitna

Saudi Blogger’s Answer to Wilders’ Film:

In his film, Raid Al-Saeed, 33, shows verses of the Bible that call for war and illustrated them with clips of extremist Christian groups that preach violence.

“I made it in less than 24 hours. In ‘Schism,’ I have used the same methodology that Wilders has used and that involves taking texts out of context,” he told Arab News, adding that he made the film to prove that it is incorrect to judge Islam by watching “Fitna.”

This is a point that he writes at the end of his short film. “It is easy to take part of any holy book out of context and make it sound like an inhumane book.”

[…] When Al-Saeed first posted his clip on YouTube on March 1, the video was removed within 12 hours with a message from the site that the clip violated its terms. Al-Saeed wrote back to YouTube, asking why the movie was removed while “Fitna” remained available. He uploaded the film again and added a message for the site’s administrators advising them to view Wilders’ film before deleting the film.

Here’s a link to “Schism” on Youtube. My Computer isn’t set up to run video. Plus I don’t have speakers. Plus the description seems enough.



  1. ddt at JREF suggests Romans 13 as an example from the NT. Remember that this is in the spirit of quoting things that misrepresent what many Christians believe.

    Submission to the Authorities

    1. Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.

    2. Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves.

    3. For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you.

    4. For he is God’s servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God’s servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer.

    5. Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience.

    6. This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing.

    7. Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.

    ddt goes on to suggest pictures of Auschwitz, and points out that “Paul leaves no room for exceptions in the absolute terms he uses.”

  2. To confirm what I said about intent in the previous comment, here is one Christian’s comments on Romans 13. It’s one of the first google came up with, there are more.

    These hard words from Paul are in the Bible, and must be reckoned with . And I’m reminded of them more often than I would like. My gut reaction, what I usually fire back with, is weak. I’m warning you. It’s the same kind of gut reaction that I condemned just a few paragraphs ago. But it goes like this: “What about Hitler? Did God establish Hitler’s authority? To do good? Should we have submitted to him?”

    See the mess I get myself into with that one? Needless to say, I’ve abandoned that answer.

    My better answer came after years of prayer, study, contemplation, and one really good conversation with my friend Jon Busch, a self proclaimed Christian anarchist. Jon reads this passage as a dismissal of the government, and his reading is rather convincing. In much the same way that Jesus answered the challenge from the Pharisees about paying taxes by all but tossing a coin away and saying “Give to Caesar what is Caesars,” he sees Paul doing the same here. Paul knew something about corrupt governments. So, for him to say that Christians must submit to governmental authority indicates that he has no intention of Christians rising up against the government, and he’s stating the obvious when he says if you do something to anger the government, you’re going to be punished. This interpretation, for Jon, who is committed to complete reluctance to participate in the government, makes perfect sense.

    For me, a Christian pacifist, I also concurred Romans 13 this way. I agree that a Christian should not rise up against the government. He should submit to that authority. But today, as in Paul’s day, there is an assumed “unless.” Unless the government requires you to act against your higher allegiance, the Kingdom of God. This may make some people squirm when they first hear it until they think about it a little more. Ask any Christian what they would do if the government suddenly told them they no longer had the right to meet and worship every Sunday; they would disobey, they would not submit, as the churches in Paul’s day did not submit, and as churches around the world still do not.

    If Paul didn’t explicitly give exceptions, then there is an assumed “unless.” The only people with problems are literalists.

    I’ve never agreed with this quote used by Richard Dawkins:

    The following quotation from the Nobel prize winning physicist Steven Weinberg has become well known, but it is so devastatingly true that it is worth quoting again and again: “With or without [religion] you’d have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, it takes religion.”

    No, for good people to do evil things it requires obedience. It’s the inability to think for themselves that gets people to act against their own conscience.

    Good people start with the conclusion that their religion tells them to do good things and interpret accordingly.

  3. Death Threats Counter: Fitna vs. Schism

  4. Perhaps you’ll look into the death threat made against Rev John Pritchard. And the actions of Christian terror groups, eg those groups listed at wiki — who do, indeed, use scripture to justify their actions.

  5. Also, how well known is ‘Schism’? How many people have seen it? And Schism ends with an acknowledgement that it has taken quotes out of context — so it is an attack on Wilders, not Christians.

    BBC 4 on Last Temptation of Christ:

    Director Martin Scorsese admits to receiving death threats during production.

    The first DVD to be removed from supermarkets on religious grounds is Jerry Springer: The Opera.

    When BBC Two screened the show earlier this year, the atmosphere was fraught, with arguments over how many swear words were in the programme (estimates ranged from 105 to a cheekier 1.7 billion), and reports of death threats against TV execs …

    Polly Toynbee, also about “Jerry Springer, The Opera”:

    But Christian Voice got more than 60,000 people to protest to the BBC and put the home addresses of BBC executives on the internet, attracting death threats requiring police protection.

  6. Protests against “the Last Temptation of Christ”:

    On October 22, 1988, a French christian fundamentalist group launched molotov cocktails inside the Parisian Saint Michel movie theater to protest against the film. This attack injured thirteen people, four of whom were severely burned.

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